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Post by craydarr on Jul 24, 2019 18:21:31 GMT
Just a question that came into my head randomly today.
When an artist re-records an old song of theirs, do they get paid at the same rate as when they struck the publishing deal, which I'm guessing they do. Also, does that song then get a new sales rate as its part of a new album and therefore comes under the new contract for the new album?
I was thinking about things like POMM as I remember Fran saying he got paid something like 1/2 pence royalty rate when it was a hit first time round.
Would that be the same for the Aquostic album then, or does it go up with inflation at least??
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Jul 25, 2019 5:53:14 GMT
Not something I know the answer to. Would there be royalties for a song that's already been published? One for the panel I think Re-recording it would presumably be part of the deal with the music company who were releasing it so there would be additional reimbursement in that sense. The world of song publishing always seems to exist in very muddy waters. Your question made me go and have a quick look and it's even more convoluted than I thought! For example, back in the day, it was fairly simple; Valley Music dominated all of the earlier Quo material but lately there seem to be as many publishers as there are songs. It also seems to be down to who writes with who. A Rossi/Edwards composition will have a different publisher from, say, a Rossi/Rickard or a Rossi/Young composition. Rick was mostly EMI Music Publishing in the past but there are no credits on his solo album other than the sinister sounding "Copyright Control" The Party and Fourth Chord albums list no publishing companies at all and simply say "reproduced by kind permission". Of whom? Something call "Youngie Music" has also started to appear which suggests that Bob Young has set up his own publishing company. Or a relation has. Your simple question about royalties has made me tie myself in knots. Time for another coffee and an all over sports massage Oh, and I still don't know by the way
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Post by snakelady on Jul 25, 2019 7:22:42 GMT
First I got to say - I don't have a clue either. When re-recording an old song two things come into play IMO. Firstly the writing royalties and I don't think anything changes with them - apart from really old songs that have run out of copyright by then (which might be the case with POMM now ? ). And then there's a new contract for the new recording with a new record company and they'll get payed for all tunes accordingly - old and new. And whether it's a re-recording only matters when it comes to rights and who owns the song. But as I've already said, that's all merely guesswork and I don't know the first thing about it, sorry.
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Post by Quoincidence on Jul 25, 2019 23:49:09 GMT
Theres too much to go into... Quo have had their foot in the door of that many record companies it's a mess. Quo could have possibly gone their own way back in the 80s / 90s with their back catalogue until David Walker saw money bags and sold the rights to Universal, and then Quo struck up a deal with Sanctuary music back in the early 2000s which ended about 06 / 07... they're the company that own TPAOY rights I think... well Universal will now as they own Sanctuary
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Jul 26, 2019 4:52:49 GMT
Theres too much to go into... Quo have had their foot in the door of that many record companies it's a mess. Quo could have possibly gone their own way back in the 80s / 90s with their back catalogue until David Walker saw money bags and sold the rights to Universal, and then Quo struck up a deal with Sanctuary music back in the early 2000s which ended about 06 / 07... they're the company that own TPAOY rights I think... well Universal will now as they own Sanctuary An ever decreasing circle
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Post by viking55 on Jul 26, 2019 8:58:50 GMT
I remember watching Paul McCartney being interviewed about having to ask and pay Michael Jackson for performing Beatles songs as Jackson had bought the publishing rights !
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frozenhero
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Post by frozenhero on Aug 3, 2019 14:56:13 GMT
If somebody plays the re-recording of POMM on the radio, Francis will probably get more royalties than if they play the original...!
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Post by craydarr on Aug 18, 2019 6:54:50 GMT
First I got to say - I don't have a clue either. When re-recording an old song two things come into play IMO. Firstly the writing royalties and I don't think anything changes with them - apart from really old songs that have run out of copyright by then (which might be the case with POMM now ? ). And then there's a new contract for the new recording with a new record company and they'll get payed for all tunes accordingly - old and new. And whether it's a re-recording only matters when it comes to rights and who owns the song. But as I've already said, that's all merely guesswork and I don't know the first thing about it, sorry. With regard to POMM being out of copyright I believe this may have changed as I know a lot of the older artists were pushing to get it extended from 50 to 75 years ( I think). As I can remember seeing Cliff Richard being interviewed about it.
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Post by snakelady on Aug 18, 2019 7:08:09 GMT
First I got to say - I don't have a clue either. When re-recording an old song two things come into play IMO. Firstly the writing royalties and I don't think anything changes with them - apart from really old songs that have run out of copyright by then (which might be the case with POMM now ? ). And then there's a new contract for the new recording with a new record company and they'll get payed for all tunes accordingly - old and new. And whether it's a re-recording only matters when it comes to rights and who owns the song. But as I've already said, that's all merely guesswork and I don't know the first thing about it, sorry. With regard to POMM being out of copyright I believe this may have changed as I know a lot of the older artists were pushing to get it extended from 50 to 75 years ( I think). As I can remember seeing Cliff Richard being interviewed about it. Guess the music business was still new and short lived and 50 years seemed like an eternity when it was introduced. Nobody had expected it to become kind of a regular job which you do till pension age and beyond.
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Post by Quoincidence on Aug 20, 2019 13:55:56 GMT
I can only assume the rights for POMM will have been renewed at some point. I have read that in some cases, the artists own the copyright for their whole life and then 50 - 70 years after they have passed
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Post by statusquid on Aug 20, 2019 19:06:39 GMT
Regarding radio royalties both Performing rights society (PRS) & Phongraphic performance ltd (PPL) collect money from radio stations for artists/songwriters, publishers & record companies etc. Usually payments are made 4 times per year....April, July, October & December. BBC RADIO 2 pay the most due to the fact they have the most listeners (9 to 12m) per week. Approx figures are PRS £22 per minute & PPL £85 per minute, combined total of £107 per minute. So a 3 minute single played on R2 equates to approx £321 per play!!! Radio 1 PRS & PPL combined figure is approx ££85 per minute (3 minute single £255) & local radio combined figure of £5 per minute (3 minute single £15). Artists also collect royalties for tv appearances & all live gig performances.
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Post by snakelady on Aug 21, 2019 6:01:30 GMT
Regarding radio royalties both Performing rights society (PRS) & Phongraphic performance ltd (PPL) collect money from radio stations for artists/songwriters, publishers & record companies etc. Usually payments are made 4 times per year....April, July, October & December. BBC RADIO 2 pay the most due to the fact they have the most listeners (9 to 12m) per week. Approx figures are PRS £22 per minute & PPL £85 per minute, combined total of £107 per minute. So a 3 minute single played on R2 equates to approx £321 per play!!! Radio 1 PRS & PPL combined figure is approx ££85 per minute (3 minute single £255) & local radio combined figure of £5 per minute (3 minute single £15). Artists also collect royalties for tv appearances & all live gig performances. Thanks for the detailed info That's a lot more than I'd have expected. After all it's just a kind of streaming without the listeners having chosen what they want to hear and streaming platforms obviously pay a lot less.
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