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Post by snakelady on Jun 14, 2017 7:14:00 GMT
While posting in Eric's Another Day thread: link it suddenly dawned on me that I may have an explanation why the band stopped changing the set shortly after. And just recently someone, I think it was Billy, remarked just how little the band has actually changed their set since the 70s even. And he's right of course only with us going to a lot less gigs back then and in general having been to far less Quo gigs, as it was simply our first gig going years, it didn't bother us. Fast forward to the 90s and the band seemed to have started to be a bit more creative with their sets, although I wouldn't know any details as it were my Quo wilderness years. I remember the excitement and controversial discussions the pub tour created on the mb, but naturally less about the set and more about the experience as such. And I wasn't aware there were pub gigs here too, so missed out on it. Then the Heavy Traffic album came along and I returned to seeing them live. The gigs were great and so was the atmosphere. The band told us they could actually play every song from the album live and they kind of proved it, with introducing a variety of them to the set. We got Heavy Traffic, Solid Gold, All Stand Up, Creepin' Up On You, The Oriental .. great ! Riffs was released next, but we didn't want it and the band didn't want it, so understandably no introductions of any of its covers to the set. Next album of original material was The Party Ain't Over Yet. Obviously loved by Rick, but a lot less so by Francis. I think what happened was that Rick was keen on introducing these songs into the set too and Francis thought them too weak for it. So what they did was a lukewarm compromise with two songs - one for Rick and one a cover. Both weren't received too enthusiastic and dropped again straight away. A few years later we had the same, just the other way round with the ISOTFC album. Francis loved it, while Rick didn't like it for reasons unknown. Maybe he didn't like the songs he had written, although I've got to say that I prefer them over anything he wrote for HT or TPAOY, So again merely two songs were introduced to the set, with Rick not even singing one of his own songs, but Rhino's Gravy Train. Easily the worst song on the album IMVHO and it went down like a lead balloon. And was dropped after just one tour. Only song to stay was Beginning Of The End, probably backed by both Francis and Rhino (no idea about Andy) What I'm trying to say is: They are more daring and creative with the set when the whole band gets behind an album IMO. But that seems to have not been the case for a while. And they lack the imagination for changes in years without new albums - and that have been a lot of years. The only major change that happened after HT was down to a compilation album - Pictures. It was probably easier for them to agree on songs in that case ..
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Jun 14, 2017 8:32:10 GMT
Or it could be much less complicated and they just can't be bothered rehearsing. Although I would suggest that the Aquostic tours knocked that argument on the head and even the FF reunion.
They did seem to chuck more new songs into the set in the 90's but I can offer no explanation for that.
Rock 'Til You Drop gave us Like A Zombie, Fakin' The Blues, One Man Band, Rock 'Til You Drop, No Problems and occasionally Let's Work Together. (6 songs; 7 if you include Forty Five Hundred Times)
The Thirsty Work tour included Goin' Nowhere, Soft In The Head, Rude Awakening Time and Restless. They might have done Queenie as well but I can't remember. (at least 4 songs)
The Don't Stop tour had Fun Fun Fun, Get Back, Proud Mary, Get Out Of Denver and All Around My Hat. (5 songs)
And the Under The Influence tour threw in Twenty Wild Horses, Under The Influence, Shine On (briefly) and possibly one or two others. But I'm relying solely on memory here. (at least 3 songs)
Whether they like an album or not, it's pretty daft not to promote it in some way with the live set, although they have set several precedents in the past with that approach. Both 1+9+8+2 and Back To Back were virtually ignored. Even the Never Too Late tour only included one song. So the set between 1980 and 1984 was pretty static.
But they've settled down to become almost a greatest hits package year on year. Its probably what brings in the bucks and puts bums on seats. Or they think it is. Quid Pro Quo bucked the trend a bit with three new songs. I think Bula Quo had the customary two.
I just think as they grew older they grew safer.
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Jun 14, 2017 8:33:50 GMT
Incidentally, wouldn't it be quite good if they pulled some live stuff out of the hat from those 90's tours? The albums were mostly not that great but some of the live renditions of the best songs were very good indeed.
It would just make a nice change really.
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Post by snakelady on Jun 15, 2017 5:51:43 GMT
Don't think that's a complicated explanation. In fact I consider it rather simple. Naturally they've varying tastes and it won't always be easy to agree on songs for albums. So the whole band getting behind an album will make a difference to another where half of the band think songs aren't any good and only made the album down to that give and take thing. That'll leave even those liking it feeling a little - dare I say it - insecure about their general appeal. Francis kept saying during his solo tour and generally in interviews that he likes this or that song but acknowledges that the rest of the band doesn't or that he expects that nobody else likes them. And then there's the problem that Francis doubts the quality of songs or whole albums because they simply don't sell in large numbers - despite knowing why that is ! - that insecurity will make him cling on to the tested formula, the same songs he knows work. HT was indeed the big exception in that respect with the whole band firmly supporting it. IMVHO
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frozenhero
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Post by frozenhero on Jun 21, 2017 10:26:23 GMT
Or it could be much less complicated and they just can't be bothered rehearsing. Although I would suggest that the Aquostic tours knocked that argument on the head and even the FF reunion. They did seem to chuck more new songs into the set in the 90's but I can offer no explanation for that. Rock 'Til You Drop gave us Like A Zombie, Fakin' The Blues, One Man Band, Rock 'Til You Drop, No Problems and occasionally Let's Work Together. (6 songs; 7 if you include Forty Five Hundred Times) The Thirsty Work tour included Goin' Nowhere, Soft In The Head, Rude Awakening Time and Restless. They might have done Queenie as well but I can't remember. (at least 4 songs) The Don't Stop tour had Fun Fun Fun, Get Back, Proud Mary, Get Out Of Denver and All Around My Hat. (5 songs) And the Under The Influence tour threw in Twenty Wild Horses, Under The Influence, Shine On (briefly) and possibly one or two others. But I'm relying solely on memory here. (at least 3 songs) Whether they like an album or not, it's pretty daft not to promote it in some way with the live set, although they have set several precedents in the past with that approach. Both 1+9+8+2 and Back To Back were virtually ignored. Even the Never Too Late tour only included one song. So the set between 1980 and 1984 was pretty static. But they've settled down to become almost a greatest hits package year on year. Its probably what brings in the bucks and puts bums on seats. Or they think it is. Quid Pro Quo bucked the trend a bit with three new songs. I think Bula Quo had the customary two. I just think as they grew older they grew safer. The bootleg index www.freewebs.com/quolive has some great infos though only recorded gigs are listed. The impression I get is that the re-formed band was trying to make a point, sort of slightly distancing itself from the 70s/early 80s sound and setlist. Hence trying out different songs. They seemed to become more comfortable with playing old material when Matt joined. Rhino started to properly fit in and so the band sounded more like Quo of old.
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Post by frozenhero on Jun 21, 2017 10:29:27 GMT
Don't think that's a complicated explanation. In fact I consider it rather simple. Naturally they've varying tastes and it won't always be easy to agree on songs for albums. So the whole band getting behind an album will make a difference to another where half of the band think songs aren't any good and only made the album down to that give and take thing. That'll leave even those liking it feeling a little - dare I say it - insecure about their general appeal. Francis kept saying during his solo tour and generally in interviews that he likes this or that song but acknowledges that the rest of the band doesn't or that he expects that nobody else likes them. And then there's the problem that Francis doubts the quality of songs or whole albums because they simply don't sell in large numbers - despite knowing why that is ! - that insecurity will make him cling on to the tested formula, the same songs he knows work. HT was indeed the big exception in that respect with the whole band firmly supporting it. IMVHO What underlines your theory is that in 74/75, off the Quo album exactly two songs were played. BTR and a part of ST later saw the light of stage but on the Quo tour they played two songs from Quo. And we know about the differing feelings about that LP among the members.
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gus
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Post by gus on Jun 21, 2017 15:58:40 GMT
Backwater and Just Take Me, also featured on the quo album
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Post by mortified on Jun 22, 2017 5:19:32 GMT
Was Break The Rules played during the Quo tour? Certainly not at every gig if it was. And not at the gig I saw.
Backwater and Just Take Me were in there but that's all that I can remember.
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Post by snakelady on Jun 22, 2017 6:15:07 GMT
You're all right - Backwater and JTM were in the sets with Alan and parts of BTR and ST later. As far as I'm aware BTR was never played in full and neither was Slow Train. frozenhero - yep, the similarities between what happened with Hello - Quo and Heavy Traffic - TPAOY are rather obvious. Only ISOTFC wasn't seen as their OTL by Rick at least, but maybe a swing too far in the opposite direction ? I'm speculating here of course, but something wasn't working for him. I actually believe the band thought they got it right with QPQ and had high hopes for the album. Only it achieved exactly the same as all recent albums up till then had and that came as a disillusion for them and had them questioning themselves and why record another rock album anyway ? Maybe another reason why we got Aquostic later and why they enjoyed recording Bula Quo ..
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Post by frozenhero on Jul 3, 2017 12:52:40 GMT
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Post by snakelady on Jul 4, 2017 7:49:06 GMT
As far as I'm aware Francis has never played the full BTR solo live. Concerning QPQ - you may well be right, although I've got to say, the best songs by far on the album have his writing credits. Doesn't mean he enjoyed the album though ..
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Post by frozenhero on Jul 11, 2017 19:15:25 GMT
As far as I'm aware Francis has never played the full BTR solo live. Concerning QPQ - you may well be right, although I've got to say, the best songs by far on the album have his writing credits. Doesn't mean he enjoyed the album though .. The weakest songs on the album also have his writing credits From www.freewebs.com/quolive : Guildford Civic 29.10.03 (4) one of the hardest rockin' shows from the last years, but the band (aka Rossi...) didn't like the setlist.. Some problems with the solo in Break the rules, but according to Francis in FTMO, the original solo on the Quo album was sped up, to sound like Les Paul, he admits he can't play that fast. So he actually never played it as you hear it on the album, and after only a few shows of this tour, he dropped it
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Post by snakelady on Jul 12, 2017 6:23:07 GMT
As far as I'm aware Francis has never played the full BTR solo live. Concerning QPQ - you may well be right, although I've got to say, the best songs by far on the album have his writing credits. Doesn't mean he enjoyed the album though .. The weakest songs on the album also have his writing credits From www.freewebs.com/quolive : Guildford Civic 29.10.03 (4) one of the hardest rockin' shows from the last years, but the band (aka Rossi...) didn't like the setlist.. Some problems with the solo in Break the rules, but according to Francis in FTMO, the original solo on the Quo album was sped up, to sound like Les Paul, he admits he can't play that fast. So he actually never played it as you hear it on the album, and after only a few shows of this tour, he dropped itThat had been discussed at length on the mb back then. It's never been clear whether he really said that or if it's actually true. It might have been a subterfuge for not playing it, as many mb guitarists claimed that they could play it and surely FR was a better guitarist .. ? You just never know with this guy why he talks down his playing abilities.
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Post by frozenhero on Jul 12, 2017 13:26:07 GMT
The weakest songs on the album also have his writing credits From www.freewebs.com/quolive : Guildford Civic 29.10.03 (4) one of the hardest rockin' shows from the last years, but the band (aka Rossi...) didn't like the setlist.. Some problems with the solo in Break the rules, but according to Francis in FTMO, the original solo on the Quo album was sped up, to sound like Les Paul, he admits he can't play that fast. So he actually never played it as you hear it on the album, and after only a few shows of this tour, he dropped itThat had been discussed at length on the mb back then. It's never been clear whether he really said that or if it's actually true. It might have been a subterfuge for not playing it, as many mb guitarists claimed that they could play it and surely FR was a better guitarist .. ? You just never know with this guy why he talks down his playing abilities. It does sound sped up to me. There are some pretty tricky passages in it that are rather unusual for him. But I'm not 100% sure. My point was, the comment reads as if he did try to attempt playing the solo for a couple of shows before simply omitting it. Anybody have that particular bootleg?!
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Jul 12, 2017 14:04:38 GMT
That had been discussed at length on the mb back then. It's never been clear whether he really said that or if it's actually true. It might have been a subterfuge for not playing it, as many mb guitarists claimed that they could play it and surely FR was a better guitarist .. ? You just never know with this guy why he talks down his playing abilities. It does sound sped up to me. There are some pretty tricky passages in it that are rather unusual for him. But I'm not 100% sure. My point was, the comment reads as if he did try to attempt playing the solo for a couple of shows before simply omitting it. Anybody have that particular bootleg?! I do. It's called Give Us Some Riffs. And Francis does struggle with the solo a bit, there's no question about that. But it's not that bad. I'm not really sure how to put it up here. It's on my PC as an mp3. I'll see if I can find it on "You Tube" or something.
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Post by smokie on Jul 18, 2017 8:43:45 GMT
I think it's been said above that during the late 80s and 90s, the structure of the set did change.
Some of the albums from that time weren't the best but they did promote them by playing 3, 4 or more songs from them (even if it was invariably 2/3 months after the album had been released).
As unlikely as it sounds, Caroline wasn't always the opener either. Paperplane was used once or twice although the intro sounded like Caroline. Songs came in, songs went out and I didn't know what was coming next.
I'm not sure what happened after HT. I know they try/tried but it smacks a bit of complacency to me. Unwilling to try or move things around.
I just realised the other day that Rick only has one writing credit on HT. I just assumed he'd have had more than that.
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Post by snakelady on Jul 19, 2017 8:18:21 GMT
I think it's been said above that during the late 80s and 90s, the structure of the set did change.
Some of the albums from that time weren't the best but they did promote them by playing 3, 4 or more songs from them (even if it was invariably 2/3 months after the album had been released).
As unlikely as it sounds, Caroline wasn't always the opener either. Paperplane was used once or twice although the intro sounded like Caroline. Songs came in, songs went out and I didn't know what was coming next.
I'm not sure what happened after HT. I know they try/tried but it smacks a bit of complacency to me. Unwilling to try or move things around.
I just realised the other day that Rick only has one writing credit on HT. I just assumed he'd have had more than that.
Another explanation would simply be age. They grew older and less adventurous (if that word can be used in connection with Quo's set changes ). With getting old came a certain stubbornness and contention with what they had, a trusted formula, a set that flows .. And so they less and less dared to mess with it. Plus new songs require practising, which Rick was obviously less and less able/willing to do. - With Rick gone this reason is gone as well, so no more an excuse to not change the set now, but that's for another topic .. And yep, that's what I meant, Gary. HT had been hugely appraised by fans and critics alike, but it contained just one Rick song. Which led to a) While the other HT songs were at least during the first tours exchanged, we've been stuck with Creepin' forever and b) Rick and Rhino wanted a bigger share of the cake (recognition, money..) too, hence parities were shifted for TPAOY with a lot less writing credits for Francis+Bob - this line-up's Quo album so to speak. For me ISOTFC is their OTL - a great album with merely one or two skip tracks from the bass player , only for some reason Rick didn't see it this way. A shame and wasted opportunity. They should've dropped Creepin' at the time and instead Alright should've been included in the set IMO. Maybe they were looking towards sales figures too much though and they didn't reflect an improvement ..
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