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Post by mortified on May 24, 2020 8:49:37 GMT
I'd seen them headlining about a year before because my girlfriend at the time was a big fan. I didn't dislike them all that much. I just used to find the guitar weaving through the songs even while Fish was singing quite irritating. And they did that a lot. OK, picky I know I think at some point the band was annoyed that Fish kept on singing in the instrumental breaks! But of course, what's he to do? He doesn't play an instrument! To me, the heart of Marillion is Steve Rothery. I've really not checked out Fish's stuff much, and I can see why... he's a class lyricist, but he has to rely on musicians to write the music for him, so it's always going to be difficult for me, being that I like the band after his departure just fine. I do hope he can finally get his album out, it's been a ridiculous history of postponed dates and issues slowing the process down... By coincidence, I was watching an old Top of the Pops last night, which I do every week - we're now up to 1989 - and Marillion were on. With a song I don't recall hearing before, although presumably I must have. It was called Hooks on You and they had a new singer. I don't know who he is/was or if he's still there. But the track wasn't at all bad. Quite straightforward commercial rock I'd have said.
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Post by frozenhero on May 24, 2020 11:10:19 GMT
I think at some point the band was annoyed that Fish kept on singing in the instrumental breaks! But of course, what's he to do? He doesn't play an instrument! To me, the heart of Marillion is Steve Rothery. I've really not checked out Fish's stuff much, and I can see why... he's a class lyricist, but he has to rely on musicians to write the music for him, so it's always going to be difficult for me, being that I like the band after his departure just fine. I do hope he can finally get his album out, it's been a ridiculous history of postponed dates and issues slowing the process down... By coincidence, I was watching an old Top of the Pops last night, which I do every week - we're now up to 1989 - and Marillion were on. With a song I don't recall hearing before, although presumably I must have. It was called Hooks on You and they had a new singer. I don't know who he is/was or if he's still there. But the track wasn't at all bad. Quite straightforward commercial rock I'd have said. That's Steve Hogarth. Still with the band (over 30 years now!), and still in pretty good voice given his age:. I think Hooks in You was a bit of a shock to fans back then who were worried their favourite band would turn into a simple AOR band (even Hogarth later said he thinks the song is banal), but the album Seasons End turned out to be just as proggish as the ones before. It's sort of a link between the eras since many of the songs were already written while Fish was still in the band (he took the lyrics with him and used them on his first solo albums). Hogarth became more integrated as time went by, and since he also plays keys and guitar, their style changed over the years. I think Brave from 1994 (a long, dark concept album) is the first album on which the new sound was emerging. This song from 2004's Marbles is in my opinion the pinnacle of Marillion's career, and possibly the pinnacle of all rock music...
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Post by mortified on May 24, 2020 14:24:46 GMT
I had a problem with Steve Hogarth's hair on that Top of the Pops performance. A sort of cross between emo and grunge. But I'll forgive him that Lyrically the song could probably be considered banal but it moved along nicely and was one of the better things on what was a half decent issue of the programme. Because the one the week before was pretty awful. House and sampling were beginning to take control and dominate. Ride on Time by Black Box was no.1 taking over from Jive Bunny, which summed things up really.
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Post by frozenhero on May 25, 2020 8:16:19 GMT
I had a problem with Steve Hogarth's hair on that Top of the Pops performance. A sort of cross between emo and grunge. But I'll forgive him that Lyrically the song could probably be considered banal but it moved along nicely and was one of the better things on what was a half decent issue of the programme. Because the one the week before was pretty awful. House and sampling were beginning to take control and dominate. Ride on Time by Black Box was no.1 taking over from Jive Bunny, which summed things up really. Yeah, I never had an issue with Hooks in You*, and there are some pretty explosive live versions out there. Still, I guess my point is the song isn't representative of "h-Marillion", as some fans call the "new" incarnation (Steve goes by the simple nickname of "h"). I assume that if you keep watching that TOTP programme they should appear a couple times more . And I think Steve's hair improves after that I think I should split a separate Marillion thread as it isn't exactly nice to Fish for me to take over his thread like this! *Geeky point: The unusual chord near the end seems to be lifted from ELO's version of Roll Over Beethoven. Or was it used before?
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Post by mortified on May 25, 2020 10:22:55 GMT
I had a problem with Steve Hogarth's hair on that Top of the Pops performance. A sort of cross between emo and grunge. But I'll forgive him that Lyrically the song could probably be considered banal but it moved along nicely and was one of the better things on what was a half decent issue of the programme. Because the one the week before was pretty awful. House and sampling were beginning to take control and dominate. Ride on Time by Black Box was no.1 taking over from Jive Bunny, which summed things up really. Yeah, I never had an issue with Hooks in You*, and there are some pretty explosive live versions out there. Still, I guess my point is the song isn't representative of "h-Marillion", as some fans call the "new" incarnation (Steve goes by the simple nickname of "h"). I assume that if you keep watching that TOTP programme they should appear a couple times more . And I think Steve's hair improves after that I think I should split a separate Marillion thread as it isn't exactly nice to Fish for me to take over his thread like this! *Geeky point: The unusual chord near the end seems to be lifted from ELO's version of Roll Over Beethoven. Or was it used before? Yeah, the song did finish quite abruptly. Never paid much attention to the final chord though. I'll maybe track it down and have another listen.
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Post by frozenhero on May 25, 2020 16:57:48 GMT
It's shortly before the end, when h sings "she's got her hooks, she's got her hooks" - and under that last "hooks" there's a somewhat weird chord, which reminds me of the way ELO did the "Beethoven, Beethoven, Beethoven" thing. If it's a coincidence it's a pretty strange one!
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Post by frozenhero on May 25, 2020 16:58:12 GMT
Incidentally, while I was typing, Kayleigh came on!
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Post by noproblems on May 25, 2020 19:59:31 GMT
I got to see Marillion in their very early days, while they were still gigging the pubs, clubs and Marquee before they got a record deal. In fact after hearing them on Tommy Vance's Friday Night Rock Show early in 1982, I went along to the aforementioned Marquee Club to see them. In the follwoing fifteen months, I saw them in Folkstone, Canterbury, Guildford, Birmingham, Hammersmith and the Marquee (in no particular order). I was at their Christmas 1982 gig at the Marquee (30 Dec) which was recorded.
I've got about four editions of their fanzine "The Web", which was typed on a stencil, and printed on low grade toilet paper using a Gestetner duplicating machine.
Good days, them!
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Post by mortified on May 26, 2020 9:18:22 GMT
Incidentally, while I was typing, Kayleigh came on! Came on to you? The brazen hussy Oh, and I forgot to mention. Tears For Fears were on the same Top of the Pops with Sowing the Seeds of Love. That trippy video they did for it. Like I say, it was a good episode, Partyman by Prince and Revival by Eurythmics being the real highlights for me
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Post by Dark on May 26, 2020 16:27:17 GMT
As much as I would like to, I've not been able to get into the Hogarth fronted version of Marillion. When first investigating the band I got the Best of both Worlds set. But the only song I liked from the Hogarth disc was, Hooks in You, which I think is a really good hard rock song.
As for TOTPs, I had been watching the repeats on BBC 4, but once it got to 87/88 there was a real drop in stuff that I thought was any good. So only sporadically tuned in, so much so that I got right out of the habit of looking to see who was on, and have not watched any 1989 stuff. Might have to get on the iplayer though and check out the Hooks in You episode.
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Post by frozenhero on May 27, 2020 8:55:43 GMT
I got to see Marillion in their very early days, while they were still gigging the pubs, clubs and Marquee before they got a record deal. In fact after hearing them on Tommy Vance's Friday Night Rock Show early in 1982, I went along to the aforementioned Marquee Club to see them. In the follwoing fifteen months, I saw them in Folkstone, Canterbury, Guildford, Birmingham, Hammersmith and the Marquee (in no particular order). I was at their Christmas 1982 gig at the Marquee (30 Dec) which was recorded. I've got about four editions of their fanzine "The Web", which was typed on a stencil, and printed on low grade toilet paper using a Gestetner duplicating machine. Good days, them! Great story! (Printed on toilet paper?! ) Incidentally, while I was typing, Kayleigh came on! Came on to you? The brazen hussy Oh, and I forgot to mention. Tears For Fears were on the same Top of the Pops with Sowing the Seeds of Love. That trippy video they did for it. Like I say, it was a good episode, Partyman by Prince and Revival by Eurythmics being the real highlights for me On the radio I love that Tears for Fears video. Ties in perfectly with the album and single cover artwork. The song itself is one of my all-time favourites. As much as I would like to, I've not been able to get into the Hogarth fronted version of Marillion. When first investigating the band I got the Best of both Worlds set. But the only song I liked from the Hogarth disc was, Hooks in You, which I think is a really good hard rock song. As for TOTPs, I had been watching the repeats on BBC 4, but once it got to 87/88 there was a real drop in stuff that I thought was any good. So only sporadically tuned in, so much so that I got right out of the habit of looking to see who was on, and have not watched any 1989 stuff. Might have to get on the iplayer though and check out the Hooks in You episode. This is interesting. I already had some of the Fish era stuff when I decided I wanted to check out the later years too... and got that compilation for a good overview. I freely admit I struggled with Hogarth's voice at first, and found the music a bit harder to get into. But it came over time, and I now think I prefer h-Marillion to Fish-Marillion, if only because they have made much more music and have experimented so much over the years that there's just more variety. I'm still missing a few albums but by the way of the many live albums they've released (and I've only got a fraction - most of them were recorded at the Marillion weekends) I think I'm familiar with almost all their work by now. Time and time again, I find their live recordings exceed the studio material. Maybe it's because both Fish and h are singers who relate well to an audience and get into the song more when they have people to sing it to. There's several Marillion songs that only really come alive when played live. Looking back, I'd also question a few song choices on the 2nd disc of "Best of Both Worlds". I certainly wouldn't have put Cannibal Surf Babe on there and Made Again also doesn't work so well out-of-context. Then there's the somewhat sappy songs such as No One Can, Cover My Eyes and Beautiful... I would've put Splintering Heart, Living With the Big Lie, Hard as Love (one of their heaviest tunes) and Gazpacho or Out of This World there instead. On the other hand, I can't argue with Easter, The Space, The Great Escape, Afraid of Sunlight or King. The biggest problem, of course, is that it stops in the mid-90s, therefore before the big experiments started. Check out this rocker: That wah-wah freakout at the end simply doesn't exist on the studio version! It's also worth pointing out that Marillion are the opposite of Quo when it comes to playing live. They often leave out many of the "single hits" and play stuff all through the catalog. If you see the band twice within a few years, chances are that there aren't any duplications between the setlists!
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Post by snakelady on May 27, 2020 10:19:25 GMT
Incidentally, while I was typing, Kayleigh came on! Ah yep, that had been their first big hit here, followed by Lavender During the time I used to drive to uni with a guy from the neighbouring town who was a big fan. The driver always chose the music .. So one week it would be his car and always Marillion, the next it was my car and my choice - guess what ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 11:21:08 GMT
I’ve tried to listen to Marillion with Hogarth a few times but he does absolutely nothing for me. For me when Fish left that was it and those albums he did with them are all classics imo. I watch the live from Loreley dvd quite often still even to this day and regret never seeing them live.
My mate at work is a massive Hogarth fan and we have many a debate over it.
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Post by mortified on Jun 9, 2020 12:49:06 GMT
I’ve tried to listen to Marillion with Hogarth a few times but he does absolutely nothing for me. For me when Fish left that was it and those albums he did with them are all classics imo. I watch the live from Loreley dvd quite often still even to this day and regret never seeing them live. My mate at work is a massive Hogarth fan and we have many a debate over it. It's a bit like Bon Scott and Brian Johnson. Or Gillan and Coverdale. Or Gabriel and Collins. And dozens of others no doubt. People have preferences and possibly even loyalties. Although these examples above are different in the sense that the acts in question either remained successful or took that success to another level. Marillion seem to have remained popular, although maybe to a more exclusive set of fans. I'm not familiar at all with Hogarth's Marillion but then I was never a fan of the original incarnation so never checked them out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 16:01:21 GMT
I’ve tried to listen to Marillion with Hogarth a few times but he does absolutely nothing for me. For me when Fish left that was it and those albums he did with them are all classics imo. I watch the live from Loreley dvd quite often still even to this day and regret never seeing them live. My mate at work is a massive Hogarth fan and we have many a debate over it. It's a bit like Bon Scott and Brian Johnson. Or Gillan and Coverdale. Or Gabriel and Collins. And dozens of others no doubt. People have preferences and possibly even loyalties. Although these examples above are different in the sense that the acts in question either remained successful or took that success to another level. Marillion seem to have remained popular, although maybe to a more exclusive set of fans. I'm not familiar at all with Hogarth's Marillion but then I was never a fan of the original incarnation so never checked them out. Or the Brian Johnson / Axl Rose debacle.......😂😂
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Post by frozenhero on Jun 10, 2020 14:07:08 GMT
I’ve tried to listen to Marillion with Hogarth a few times but he does absolutely nothing for me. For me when Fish left that was it and those albums he did with them are all classics imo. I watch the live from Loreley dvd quite often still even to this day and regret never seeing them live. My mate at work is a massive Hogarth fan and we have many a debate over it. FYI, A lot of "Seasons End" (first Marillion album post-Fish) was already composed when Fish was still in the band. Fish of course took his lyrics with him. Got the Loreley DVD too. I think it's a shame a lot of people have not even heard songs like Map of the World, The Damage, Afraid of Sunlight, Three Minute Boy, Don't Hurt Yourself, Drilling Holes, You're Gone or Sounds That Can't Be Made... as somebody commented on the release of Marbles, had it been released by Coldplay or somesuch band, it would have become a blockbuster. I’ve tried to listen to Marillion with Hogarth a few times but he does absolutely nothing for me. For me when Fish left that was it and those albums he did with them are all classics imo. I watch the live from Loreley dvd quite often still even to this day and regret never seeing them live. My mate at work is a massive Hogarth fan and we have many a debate over it. It's a bit like Bon Scott and Brian Johnson. Or Gillan and Coverdale. Or Gabriel and Collins. And dozens of others no doubt. People have preferences and possibly even loyalties. Although these examples above are different in the sense that the acts in question either remained successful or took that success to another level. Marillion seem to have remained popular, although maybe to a more exclusive set of fans. I'm not familiar at all with Hogarth's Marillion but then I was never a fan of the original incarnation so never checked them out. More exclusive, but also more loyal, helping the band through rough times with no record contract and not much backing from the industry. The band's attitude helped with this, of course. They know what their fans (the Anoraks) want and they deliver. Case in point is a song like the aforementioned Hooks in You - even if the band may not be too fond of it, they still play it every now and then because they know it works well live. In fact, I think there's only a handful of songs from the Hogarth era that have not been played live at some point. The chart success of the last record F E A R (though I don't like it!) and the live album All One Tonight didn't come from out of nowhere.
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Post by johns on Jun 11, 2020 12:46:06 GMT
Just got the remastered Fugazi the other day to complete my Fish-era studio albums. Have to say I much prefer this to the later stuff which I have never been able to get into. I thought they were great at Milton Keynes supporting Quo.
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Post by mortified on Jun 11, 2020 13:04:04 GMT
Just got the remastered Fugazi the other day to complete my Fish-era studio albums. Have to say I much prefer this to the later stuff which I have never been able to get into. I thought they were great at Milton Keynes supporting Quo. Confession time. I dozed through them Well, it was a warm day and we'd been travelling since 6 o'clock in the morning Woke up for Gary Glitter though. Not sure what that says about me
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Post by craydarr on Jun 12, 2020 5:29:36 GMT
I’ve only seen them once when they were on the same bill as the Quo at Guilfest in the early 2000s.
At the time I was quite into them but I thought they missed a bit of a trick as they were playing to a very mainstream audience but rather than play some of their more commercial material like Beautiful, Between You and Me and Map of the World or Hooks in You. They played some long songs that didn’t really translate too well with the audience.
You could see from the back that they went down well with their audience at the front but the majority weren’t really receptive. Shame really.
I haven’t bought anything of theirs for a while, can anyone recommend any post 2005 albums ??
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2020 12:48:11 GMT
I’ve only seen them once when they were on the same bill as the Quo at Guilfest in the early 2000s. At the time I was quite into them but I thought they missed a bit of a trick as they were playing to a very mainstream audience but rather than play some of their more commercial material like Beautiful, Between You and Me and Map of the World or Hooks in You. They played some long songs that didn’t really translate too well with the audience. You could see from the back that they went down well with their audience at the front but the majority weren’t really receptive. Shame really. I haven’t bought anything of theirs for a while, can anyone recommend any post 2005 albums ?? Unfortunately I can’t recommend anything past about 1987.
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Post by frozenhero on Jun 24, 2020 9:20:57 GMT
I’ve only seen them once when they were on the same bill as the Quo at Guilfest in the early 2000s. At the time I was quite into them but I thought they missed a bit of a trick as they were playing to a very mainstream audience but rather than play some of their more commercial material like Beautiful, Between You and Me and Map of the World or Hooks in You. They played some long songs that didn’t really translate too well with the audience. You could see from the back that they went down well with their audience at the front but the majority weren’t really receptive. Shame really. I haven’t bought anything of theirs for a while, can anyone recommend any post 2005 albums ?? They're stubborn like that. I've heard reports from a festival they were at and casual "fans" complained they didn't play anything they knew. Basically the opposite of Quo. I really like those songs you mention and also think they could win over a non-anorak audience with tracks like that (which also prove that they can still do short, punchy numbers without Fish). Actually, I just looked up the setlist: www.setlist.fm/setlist/marillion/2005/stoke-park-guildford-england-7bd5d2fc.htmlIf that is correct I can't really argue with it. Between You & Me is there, and so is You're Gone, which was a Top Ten hit shortly before! I would've selected The Damage instead of one of the other songs, but that one was only on the 2CD edition of Marbles (a really bad decision!), so wouldn't have worked promotion-wise. And I've already gushed about Neverland...
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Post by craydarr on Jun 25, 2020 13:08:31 GMT
I’ve only seen them once when they were on the same bill as the Quo at Guilfest in the early 2000s. At the time I was quite into them but I thought they missed a bit of a trick as they were playing to a very mainstream audience but rather than play some of their more commercial material like Beautiful, Between You and Me and Map of the World or Hooks in You. They played some long songs that didn’t really translate too well with the audience. You could see from the back that they went down well with their audience at the front but the majority weren’t really receptive. Shame really. I haven’t bought anything of theirs for a while, can anyone recommend any post 2005 albums ?? They're stubborn like that. I've heard reports from a festival they were at and casual "fans" complained they didn't play anything they knew. Basically the opposite of Quo. I really like those songs you mention and also think they could win over a non-anorak audience with tracks like that (which also prove that they can still do short, punchy numbers without Fish). Actually, I just looked up the setlist: www.setlist.fm/setlist/marillion/2005/stoke-park-guildford-england-7bd5d2fc.htmlIf that is correct I can't really argue with it. Between You & Me is there, and so is You're Gone, which was a Top Ten hit shortly before! I would've selected The Damage instead of one of the other songs, but that one was only on the 2CD edition of Marbles (a really bad decision!), so wouldn't have worked promotion-wise. And I've already gushed about Neverland... You are right about between you and me, I did remember afterwards but couldn’t be arsed to change it 😁 Can you recommend any Hogarth era albums ??
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Post by frozenhero on Jul 1, 2020 13:35:43 GMT
You are right about between you and me, I did remember afterwards but couldn’t be arsed to change it 😁 Can you recommend any Hogarth era albums ?? Do you have any already? I'm asking since you are familiar with some songs. ...Nevermind, I've seen you've posted you have Holidays in Eden, Anoraknophobia, Afraid of the Sunlight and Unplugged at the Walls. Still, here's my rundown, since others might be interested too... Anoraknophobia (2001) may be my favourite, despite it not having the best standing among fans. But I think this is one where they really got the balance right... not too many long songs, quite a few rocky bits, and h in top form. Marbles (2004) contains some sublime songs and is also a very diverse collection of music. The three epics (The Invisible Man, Ocean Cloud and Neverland) tower over the rest but then there's such gems as The Damage (addictive!), You're Gone, Drilling Holes (utterly fun), Genie and Don't Hurt Yourself. But being a double CD it does test the attention (stay away from the shortened EMI 1CD version, it misses some of the best songs). Still, one of their high points, although as with Anoraknophobia several songs really came to life live. Afraid of Sunlight (1995) is another beautiful melting pot of styles. The deluxe book set adds a new remix of the album and a fantastic live concert from Rotterdam, which might be one of Ian Mosley's best hours. Brave (1994) is a tough one to sit through depending on one's taste. Long, dark concept album focusing on a lot of negative things... but that said, I think it's better than Pink Floyd's The Wall. And "Hard as Love" burns bright, especially in Steven Wilson's remix. A fan favourite and one that the band themselves have resurrected several times since, but a divisive album. Holidays in Eden (1991) is often shunned as too poppy but I actually like most of it. There are two albums in my collections that I would personally not recommend unless you really want to have everything: Somewhere Else (2007) just feels like they've lost the focus. It also drags, and there's not much uplifting on it... but also not providing the trauma/release thing like large parts of Brave do. It's just overcooked and underwritten. F E A R (2016) was a big success but ultimately, I find it artificial, boring and horribly mastered. It's almost like they forgot how to tie a song together. I only like bits of "El Dorado" and most of "The New Kings", the rest is forgettable or badly put together IMO. The rest of the catalog is known to me mostly by the many live albums, but I don't feel I could comment on the quality of the studio albums even though I know all songs from Seasons End (1989, likely great), Radiation (1998, more alternative / experimental rock, less prog) and most of the songs from the other albums. The 2008-2012 stretch is a bit of uncharted territory for me though, although I love the live recordings of "The Man from the Planet Marzipan", "Asylum Satellite #1" (very psychedelic Pink Floyd), "Sounds That Can't Be Made", the ever relevant "Gaza" and "The Sky Above the Rain". Special shout-out goes to the re-workings on 2019's With Friends from the Orchestra, which has some nice "classical" arrangements (no big orchestra, just 4 string and 2 wind players) featured on new recordings of some of the best h-era songs... almost like a posher best-of, if you like. Marillion's Aquostic if you want to be silly
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Post by craydarr on Jul 1, 2020 18:16:50 GMT
Thanks for the heads up Frozenhero, you are right in your assumption on the albums I have.
I have heard Brave and I know it’s really rated, but I did find it depressing I did struggle with it. .
I will check some others out 🙂
Funnily enough I am just listening to a Steve Hogarth tribute album called A Life in Yes and I don’t mind some of it, but it does get a bit too Proggy at times. Do like his voice tho 😁
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