mortified
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Post by mortified on Dec 11, 2017 10:51:32 GMT
I was going to start this thread last week but never got round to it.
I think we all agree that audience sizes were well down this winter and we've all speculated on why. But were they? We now have a report from Crapmodem saying that the Hammersmith Apollo was quite busy and that others around the country (Reading, Cardiff etc.) weren't far from sold out. What has prompted this thread is an article in the tour programme about the Royal Albert Hall gig.
I was led to believe that ticket sales for that were poor but the pictures in the programme clearly show that it was packed all the way to the top.
I wonder if we sometimes err on the pessimistic side. Maybe some even revel in it. Well, we know they do. Decisions this year taken by the band – or their representatives – have been very poor as has the communication. And I don't doubt that Aquostic has run its course, certainly in the UK. But is the situation as bad as we have tended to think?
I sometimes wonder if message boards are 10% fact and 90% bull$hit. And I’m as guilty as anyone.
Any thoughts?
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Post by mikebelgium32 on Dec 11, 2017 11:29:38 GMT
I was at the Hammersmith gig. On the ground floor I didn’t see empty seats. I was on the first level ( circle) and I think 1/4 empty seats. A lot of people sat down during the gig. But they were older people. Just after me were 2 guys, and they were about 125 kg ( 250 pounds), each. I think if they would jump up and down and sing and shout, they would drop dead. Public is getting older.
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Post by craydarr on Dec 11, 2017 11:57:39 GMT
I think it's obvious numbers are down but I think the reasons are varied as to why:
1. Rick not being there was the final straw for some 2. Last Night of the Electrics last year - some possibly feel cheated 3. Confusion over the electric / acoustic tour in the uk- again some may feel cheated. 4. High ticket prices. 5. The band seemingly backtracking in general over some of the above and some fans feel as if they've been lied to. 6. Static set lists
I think it will be interesting to see the numbers on the German Aquostic shows as that may give it a bit more legs in future. Perhaps the band can do short Aquostic tours just using a handful of major cities in europe?
If they don come back in 2018 for an album and tour it will be very interesting to see how it goes.
I may see them locally next year but am happy to wait till 2018.......
The thing with that is will there be more band casualties in that time and will they still be fit to tour, 12 months is a long time and they win't getting any younger.
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Post by I Ain't Complaining on Dec 11, 2017 12:27:06 GMT
I think it's obvious numbers are down but I think the reasons are varied as to why: 1. Rick not being there was the final straw for some 2. Last Night of the Electrics last year - some possibly feel cheated 3. Confusion over the electric / acoustic tour in the uk- again some may feel cheated. 4. High ticket prices. 5. The band seemingly backtracking in general over some of the above and some fans feel as if they've been lied to. 6. Static set lists I think it will be interesting to see the numbers on the German Aquostic shows as that may give it a bit more legs in future. Perhaps the band can do short Aquostic tours just using a handful of major cities in europe? If they don come back in 2018 for an album and tour it will be very interesting to see how it goes. I may see them locally next year but am happy to wait till 2018.......The thing with that is will there be more band casualties in that time and will they still be fit to tour, 12 months is a long time and they win't getting any younger. Do you mean 2019?
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Post by smokie on Dec 11, 2017 12:57:00 GMT
I've no idea how the tickets have sold this year but I don't think there's any doubt that there's a group of fans that hope that the band don't sell tickets and everything that is attempted ends in glorious failure. I think revel is definitely the operative word for this group but how many of them are there? Is it just a vocal minority? Personally, I hope that everything that the band touches turns to gold, even now but I know that's unlikely.
There's no doubt that the events of the last year have had an impact, Rick passing away and then the shambles of this year hasn't helped but there does still appear to be a demand/audience to see the band.
I don't think the management have helped with their mixed messages this year. I think it's peculiar but I get the impression that Quo's management really don't care if the loyal fan base (what's left of it) stays or goes. I could be wrong with that but is certainly the impression that I get. I sometimes think the band share this opinion too. The static set list is an example of that for me. That set list isn't aimed at any of us on here, is it?
Too much pontificating for a Monday......
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Post by I Ain't Complaining on Dec 11, 2017 13:15:35 GMT
I've no idea how the tickets have sold this year but I don't think there's any doubt that there's a group of fans that hope that the band don't sell tickets and everything that is attempted ends in glorious failure. I think revel is definitely the operative word for this group but how many of them are there? Is it just a vocal minority? Personally, I hope that everything that the band touches turns to gold, even now but I know that's unlikely.
There's no doubt that the events of the last year have had an impact, Rick passing away and then the shambles of this year hasn't helped but there does still appear to be a demand/audience to see the band.
I don't think the management have helped with their mixed messages this year. I think it's peculiar but I get the impression that Quo's management really don't care if the loyal fan base (what's left of it) stays or goes. I could be wrong with that but is certainly the impression that I get. I sometimes think the band share this opinion too. The static set list is an example of that for me. That set list isn't aimed at any of us on here, is it?
Too much pontificating for a Monday......
I think they think that songs like Caroline, Rain, Softer Ride, Little Lady, ROLD, HYB, PP, DD, Big Fat Mama (before Rick left) were for us (the dedicated fans).....but they seem to miss the fact that we want variety as much as anything. Play something different!!
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Post by craydarr on Dec 11, 2017 13:44:43 GMT
I think it's obvious numbers are down but I think the reasons are varied as to why: 1. Rick not being there was the final straw for some 2. Last Night of the Electrics last year - some possibly feel cheated 3. Confusion over the electric / acoustic tour in the uk- again some may feel cheated. 4. High ticket prices. 5. The band seemingly backtracking in general over some of the above and some fans feel as if they've been lied to. 6. Static set lists I think it will be interesting to see the numbers on the German Aquostic shows as that may give it a bit more legs in future. Perhaps the band can do short Aquostic tours just using a handful of major cities in europe? If they don come back in 2018 for an album and tour it will be very interesting to see how it goes. I may see them locally next year but am happy to wait till 2018.......The thing with that is will there be more band casualties in that time and will they still be fit to tour, 12 months is a long time and they win't getting any younger. Do you mean 2019? Of Course, sorry. Thanks for that. I Ain't Complaining
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Post by problemshalved on Dec 11, 2017 19:38:12 GMT
Without doing an Ivee and repeating myself endlessly, Quo have relied on multi giggers throughout their history, and for some reason those multi giggers have now decided enough is enough with most of them citing Static set list as the reason.
I still fin it odd blaming the static set list as the reason for stopping going when surely if you attended in some cases up to 350 gigs, you would have reached the conclusion decades ago?
Now here’s a theory to throw into the pot. If you have had such a long history supporting the band and you know the end is not far away, you need a proper closure. We all thought that closure was going to the winter tour 2016. I certainly did, and even though RP wasn’t there, I threw myself into that final gig at the BIC Bournemouth with gusto as I thought it would be the last. I left happy as I could be. 2 weeks later RP died but somehow I wasn’t numb as I could see it coming for some reason, but I knew when I last saw him perform at the same venue in Dec 15 he was on top form. Result closure for me especially as I had zero interest in seeing Aquostic as I always felt it should have been a one off project, so the Albert Hall back in April 15 was enough for me. Effectively if you have been through this closure process, to then have the band try and justify a resurrection, leads those who were blindly multi gigging almost through habit to actually start questioning why they are doing this year after year. It may be that to justify it to themselves they use the set list as a reason, but as I say it doesn’t ring true with me why you didn’t stop a long long time ago. Remember the key to breaking a habit is to break the cycle, and I believe a large number have broken the cycle and are over their addiction.
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Post by craydarr on Dec 11, 2017 19:46:46 GMT
The attendance looks good at Hammersmith according to this??
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Post by smokie on Dec 12, 2017 6:00:53 GMT
I've no idea how the tickets have sold this year but I don't think there's any doubt that there's a group of fans that hope that the band don't sell tickets and everything that is attempted ends in glorious failure. I think revel is definitely the operative word for this group but how many of them are there? Is it just a vocal minority? Personally, I hope that everything that the band touches turns to gold, even now but I know that's unlikely.
There's no doubt that the events of the last year have had an impact, Rick passing away and then the shambles of this year hasn't helped but there does still appear to be a demand/audience to see the band.
I don't think the management have helped with their mixed messages this year. I think it's peculiar but I get the impression that Quo's management really don't care if the loyal fan base (what's left of it) stays or goes. I could be wrong with that but is certainly the impression that I get. I sometimes think the band share this opinion too. The static set list is an example of that for me. That set list isn't aimed at any of us on here, is it?
Too much pontificating for a Monday......
I think they think that songs like Caroline, Rain, Softer Ride, Little Lady, ROLD, HYB, PP, DD, Big Fat Mama (before Rick left) were for us (the dedicated fans).....but they seem to miss the fact that we want variety as much as anything. Play something different!! Fair point and I know what you mean. It's just that I feel that they could drop the Heavy Traffic songs and Beginning Of The End and throw in Backwater/Just Take Me or April Spring..... or Rockers Rollin'. Just to spice it up a bit. For us and for themselves too.
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Dec 12, 2017 6:07:21 GMT
Now here’s a theory to throw into the pot. If you have had such a long history supporting the band and you know the end is not far away, you need a proper closure.... It may be that to justify it to themselves they use the set list as a reason, but as I say it doesn’t ring true with me why you didn’t stop a long long time ago. Remember the key to breaking a habit is to break the cycle, and I believe a large number have broken the cycle and are over their addiction. I see where you're coming from but I'll try to answer, at least from my standpoint. I suspect you might be right in relation to many others. I don't need closure. Not in the sense that I have to be aware when my last ever gig is/was. It's just not an issue although it is, of course, nice and tidy. But after Milton Keynes it's sort of become irrelevant I have been a multi-gigger but only really from about 2000 onwards. As easier travel from Scotland and greater disposable income became factors. The set list did seem to vary more until around 2009 and since then - apart from a brief flirtation with the three Quid Pro Quo songs - it's been fairly stagnant. Since 2011 I have been going to less gigs (we're down to 1 or 2 a year rather than the 20 it was in 2009) and the set list is the no.1 factor; no question about that. But they can't vary the set just for me and people like me. Not as long as they remain successful which, until this year, they most certainly were. I just think this year has been more successful than many of us have given them (dis)credit for. Certainly more than I thought as the winter tour approached. I accept there were half empty venues but I also know there were those that were almost full. Which I suppose is the point I'm trying to make. Things just weren't as bad as we and others were making out. Not as successful as most other years but hardly verging on bankruptcy. I get what you mean about Crapmodem's 350 Quo gigs. How did he not get bored earlier? Possibly the same reasons as me; varied set lists year on year coupled with, frankly, just being younger and more enthusiastic will have been two significant factors. Crowds will have been down to an extent or they wouldn't be cutting down next year. Not when they say they are now reinvigorated on stage. That becomes a contradiction (amongst many others). I think they may hope that absence makes the heart grow fonder. It may well do. But age is a factor. The audience gets older and more infirm every year. Just have to wait and see.
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Post by smokie on Dec 12, 2017 6:12:38 GMT
I used to go three or four times per tour back in the 90s/00s and now I don't go at all and that was because of the static set.
It might be hard to believe now but back then the set did change from tour to tour. The Rock 'Till You Drop tour was an example of that when they played three or four songs from that album. As dire as Perfect Remedy was, they played a few songs from that album too. The next tour it was changed around and you didn't really know what was coming next.
It is predictable now. It's not fresh. By all accounts, the band are in top form but at the moment, I don't think it's for me and that is mainly due to the static set list.
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Dec 12, 2017 6:33:07 GMT
I used to go three or four times per tour back in the 90s/00s and now I don't go at all and that was because of the static set. It might be hard to believe now but back then the set did change from tour to tour. The Rock 'Till You Drop tour was an example of that when they played three or four songs from that album. As dire as Perfect Remedy was, they played a few songs from that album too. The next tour it was changed around and you didn't really know what was coming next. It is predictable now. It's not fresh. By all accounts, the band are in top form but at the moment, I don't think it's for me and that is mainly due to the static set list. The absence of new albums and new material is probably a factor. If you only bring out compilations (which technically includes Aquostic) that's what happens. Quo are now recording 'new' albums, on average, maybe once every 3 or 4 years now. And the gap is getting longer; 1999, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2011, 2013....tumbleweed It's different if you're touring only every 4 years but Quo are a different animal. Always have been. But I enjoyed my one winter gig hugely. So the answer presumably lies with me, not them.
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Post by snakelady on Dec 12, 2017 9:56:52 GMT
I used to go three or four times per tour back in the 90s/00s and now I don't go at all and that was because of the static set. It might be hard to believe now but back then the set did change from tour to tour. The Rock 'Till You Drop tour was an example of that when they played three or four songs from that album. As dire as Perfect Remedy was, they played a few songs from that album too. The next tour it was changed around and you didn't really know what was coming next. It is predictable now. It's not fresh. By all accounts, the band are in top form but at the moment, I don't think it's for me and that is mainly due to the static set list. The absence of new albums and new material is probably a factor. If you only bring out compilations (which technically includes Aquostic) that's what happens. Quo are now recording 'new' albums, on average, maybe once every 3 or 4 years now. And the gap is getting longer; 1999, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2011, 2013....tumbleweed It's different if you're touring only every 4 years but Quo are a different animal. Always have been. But I enjoyed my one winter gig hugely. So the answer presumably lies with me, not them. It would still be ok if they dropped old songs and kept the newer ones. And why not exchange newer tracks with other newer tracks ? Last time they did that was when Heavy Traffic + Solid Gold were dropped in favour of The Oriental. The only songs that have to stay for the average gig goes are Caroline, ITAN, WYW and RAOTW. To think all the other old tracks have to stay for the fans is ridiculous. An that leaves plenty of space for changes. I more and more come to the conclusion they completely lack the sense for what the fans want. The actual fans, who go to gigs - not those who complain regardless, but are only ever interested in the FF. They seem to dismiss what we want completely due to an 'everybody wants something different and we know better what's required anyway' attitude. And they still haven't gotten round to the fact that the low sales figures that are standard these days don't equal the fans not liking or even knowing the material. Yes, it's nice DWMT is back, as we are starved for changes, but it would be a lot better even if Heavy Traffic was back or Dust To Gold was introduced newly. We, the fans, know the newer albums, we like them, we want to hear the songs live ! But how to get that across to the band ??
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Dec 12, 2017 10:31:07 GMT
It's only a personal view but I think, up until this year at any rate, the band (or more likely Mr Rossi) were happy to keep things largely unchanged because it worked and it was successful and the people kept on coming. It was a no risk policy. That may have suddenly been turned on its head and become a risk in 2017 but I'm not convinced. Too many other factors are involved to single out the set issue on its own.
If I was in the business of predictions, I'd say that some sort of major return in 2019 might see a new album, a couple of new songs in the set and then the same old same old. The dissenters (like us) are definitely a minority but I think we'd be happy to see new songs in 2019 plus the replacement of The Oriental, Creepin'... and Beginning Of The End. By 2019, these songs will have been in the set non-stop for 16 years, 17 years and 12 years respectively. Which is actually quite astonishing.
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Post by smokie on Dec 12, 2017 10:39:44 GMT
I'll never understand the band's reluctance to change the set. Never.
I've only seen The Rolling Stones once and they played "the arena set" as it was in the SE&CC but on that same tour, they had a theatre set and a stadium one too depending on the venue. I'm not expecting Quo to drastically alter the set every night but.......
I accept that new albums appear infrequently and also that Quo tour more often than just about everyone else but just because the new albums aren't there to promote, it doesn't mean that the songs aren't there to bring into the set.
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Dec 12, 2017 11:23:11 GMT
The thread has obviously morphed into a set list discussion, which is not such a surprise seeing that many (well, some) see it as the main factor in any dwindling attendances.
I'm just not convinced now that audience levels have reached an all time low. And certainly not irreversibly. Time will tell of course. The signs for me are that they will continue to throw themselves at summer festivals, that sort of thing, but cut back almost completely on the winter touring. They invariably go down really well at these summer events and I imagine they are financially more lucrative, especially if they headline.
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Post by Crapmodem on Dec 12, 2017 13:06:51 GMT
"The Oriental, Creepin'... and Beginning Of The End. By 2019, these songs will have been in the set non-stop for 16 years, 17 years and 12 years respectively. Which is actually quite astonishing."
...especially as none of them were hits.
Until the above, the only non-hits that have been in the set long term have been DWMT and BBJ. The first of those is a guaranteed crowd pleaser (which was played at Live Aid) while the second is a neat way to close, if very tired.
But let's stir it up a bit! Have the current gigs in Europe been cancelled because Francis is ill? Or because of poor ticket sales? Or because Aquostic is expensive to transport and perform unless ticket sales are fantastic. Sadly, I find it hard to trust official announcements any more...
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Dec 12, 2017 15:11:21 GMT
"The Oriental, Creepin'... and Beginning Of The End. By 2019, these songs will have been in the set non-stop for 16 years, 17 years and 12 years respectively. Which is actually quite astonishing."
...especially as none of them were hits.
Until the above, the only non-hits that have been in the set long term have been DWMT and BBJ. The first of those is a guaranteed crowd pleaser (which was played at Live Aid) while the second is a neat way to close, if very tired.
But let's stir it up a bit! Have the current gigs in Europe been cancelled because Francis is ill? Or because of poor ticket sales? Or because Aquostic is expensive to transport and perform unless ticket sales are fantastic. Sadly, I find it hard to trust official announcements any more...
Interesting hypothesis. Truth, half truth or rubbish speculation, it certainly indicates the cynicism we now have in relation to any official announcements.
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Post by snakelady on Dec 12, 2017 17:50:23 GMT
"The Oriental, Creepin'... and Beginning Of The End. By 2019, these songs will have been in the set non-stop for 16 years, 17 years and 12 years respectively. Which is actually quite astonishing."
...especially as none of them were hits.
Until the above, the only non-hits that have been in the set long term have been DWMT and BBJ. The first of those is a guaranteed crowd pleaser (which was played at Live Aid) while the second is a neat way to close, if very tired.
But let's stir it up a bit! Have the current gigs in Europe been cancelled because Francis is ill? Or because of poor ticket sales? Or because Aquostic is expensive to transport and perform unless ticket sales are fantastic. Sadly, I find it hard to trust official announcements any more...
BBJ (live-album version) did make the single charts here. With my gig (Baden-Baden) cancelled I've been looking for alternatives. As near as all good seats and actually most categories are sold out though. So it's definitely not down to poor sales here. And they're not taking the string section along this time, so the number of additional personnel and with it the amount of additional costs isn't that high either. And they won't need as much lighting and with it trucks and riggers for an acoustic show. So I don't see additional costs eating away too much from the profit a major factor this time. Usually they tour Germany first and then fall ill during the UK leg, this time it's simply the other way round IMO.
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Post by Crapmodem on Dec 12, 2017 17:53:33 GMT
"BBJ (live-album version) did make the single charts here".
I didn't know that!
Also, I dare say that Big Fat Mama (and possibly Little Lady) also qualify as long-term visitors to the set list.
I didn't mention Gerdundula as it was on the B side of the live Roll Over Lay Down single.
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Post by problemshalved on Dec 12, 2017 17:57:28 GMT
"The Oriental, Creepin'... and Beginning Of The End. By 2019, these songs will have been in the set non-stop for 16 years, 17 years and 12 years respectively. Which is actually quite astonishing."
...especially as none of them were hits.
Until the above, the only non-hits that have been in the set long term have been DWMT and BBJ. The first of those is a guaranteed crowd pleaser (which was played at Live Aid) while the second is a neat way to close, if very tired.
But let's stir it up a bit! Have the current gigs in Europe been cancelled because Francis is ill? Or because of poor ticket sales? Or because Aquostic is expensive to transport and perform unless ticket sales are fantastic. Sadly, I find it hard to trust official announcements any more...
I would have thought to be paid out under Insurance, any cancellation for Illness has to verified by an Independant doctor
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Post by I Ain't Complaining on Dec 13, 2017 10:46:43 GMT
Without doing an Ivee and repeating myself endlessly, Quo have relied on multi giggers throughout their history, and for some reason those multi giggers have now decided enough is enough with most of them citing Static set list as the reason. I still fin it odd blaming the static set list as the reason for stopping going when surely if you attended in some cases up to 350 gigs, you would have reached the conclusion decades ago? Now here’s a theory to throw into the pot. If you have had such a long history supporting the band and you know the end is not far away, you need a proper closure. We all thought that closure was going to the winter tour 2016. I certainly did, and even though RP wasn’t there, I threw myself into that final gig at the BIC Bournemouth with gusto as I thought it would be the last. I left happy as I could be. 2 weeks later RP died but somehow I wasn’t numb as I could see it coming for some reason, but I knew when I last saw him perform at the same venue in Dec 15 he was on top form. Result closure for me especially as I had zero interest in seeing Aquostic as I always felt it should have been a one off project, so the Albert Hall back in April 15 was enough for me. Effectively if you have been through this closure process, to then have the band try and justify a resurrection, leads those who were blindly multi gigging almost through habit to actually start questioning why they are doing this year after year. It may be that to justify it to themselves they use the set list as a reason, but as I say it doesn’t ring true with me why you didn’t stop a long long time ago. Remember the key to breaking a habit is to break the cycle, and I believe a large number have broken the cycle and are over their addiction. I studied a little bit of that myself....you know what you're talking about!
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Post by I Ain't Complaining on Dec 13, 2017 10:59:40 GMT
"BBJ (live-album version) did make the single charts here".
I didn't know that!
Also, I dare say that Big Fat Mama (and possibly Little Lady) also qualify as long-term visitors to the set list.
I didn't mention Gerdundula as it was on the B side of the live Roll Over Lay Down single.
And of course Hold You Back (which possibly was a hit somewhere (Germany or Australia) but not in the UK)......even though it could easily have been a fantastic second single from the album in 1977/8. So there are a few (non-singles which have stayed in the set), but that doesn't change the point made about CUOY, TO & BOTE.
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mortified
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Post by mortified on Dec 13, 2017 11:46:07 GMT
"The Oriental, Creepin'... and Beginning Of The End. By 2019, these songs will have been in the set non-stop for 16 years, 17 years and 12 years respectively. Which is actually quite astonishing."
...especially as none of them were hits.
Until the above, the only non-hits that have been in the set long term have been DWMT and BBJ. The first of those is a guaranteed crowd pleaser (which was played at Live Aid) while the second is a neat way to close, if very tired.
But let's stir it up a bit! Have the current gigs in Europe been cancelled because Francis is ill? Or because of poor ticket sales? Or because Aquostic is expensive to transport and perform unless ticket sales are fantastic. Sadly, I find it hard to trust official announcements any more...
BBJ (live-album version) did make the single charts here. It did?? I didn't even know they'd released a single from the live album. In any country! I don't doubt ticket sales have been fine in Germany or that would have been plugged back in as well. It's just a shame this has happened to put a dampener on what would have been a successful end to a troublesome year.
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